AllYou! wrote:
> In news:k06fj5-00l.ln1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Doug Laidlaw <doug@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> mused:
>> AllYou! wrote:
>>
>>> In news:vjjej5-4p3.ln1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Doug Laidlaw <doug@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> mused:
>>>> As objectively as I can be, marriage can be a mystery. There
>>>> are things about my wife that I think don't meet my needs; I
>>>> have sensed in the company of other women that they would be
>>>> far more suitable in those regards. I could say that I waited
>>>> too long, until the field was limited.
>>>
>>> I would've felt better about this had you acknowledged that you
>>> understand that it's a mirage (i.e., not real). While there
>>> may very well be someone or other out there that would be a
>>> better fit for you, the chances that they can be found almost
>>> anywhere (which is what I infer by the phrase 'in the company
>>> of other women', as though it happens with almost any other
>>> women) are very, very slim. You were attracted to your DW
>>> because, at one time, you thought the same thing about her, and
>>> as you got to know her better, you felt that way increasingly
>>> more.
>>>
>>>
>>>> But despite all that, there is a solid bond between us. I find
>>>> the relation****p very satisfying and very dissatisfying at the
>>>> same time.
>>>>
>>>> As I said, a mystery.
>>>
>>> In this context, 'mysterious' is a relative term. and so it's
>>> not all that mysterious if you realize that all human
>>> interactions are filled with mysteries that we may never
>>> understand. You strike me as an incredibly intelligent,
>>> articulate person who is more than capable of figuring out how
>>> to have discussions with his DW so that you can explore those
>>> things that are dissatisfying in your marriage. The mystery
>>> for me is why you don't do more of that with her.
>>>
>> I can explore all I like. To her, it is irrelevant. I think
>> that I empathised with Xorra on this - it is like talking a
>> different language. The language, the concepts that I use, are
>> like Greek to her. We were both loners - I because of
>> depression, probably, and she because she was an only child. I
>> want a momma; she wants a substitute father, she told me. Both
>> wanting to be followers makes both dissatisfied. Her father was
>> a passive type, but intelligent; her mother was the driving
>> force. My father was dominating, but my mother wasn't the
>> opposite of hers. Neither of us was exposed to much affection
>> or display of affection in the home. We are basically from very
>> similar backgrounds, socially, financially, in education and
>> religion.
>>
>> I do wish that we had done more interacting in the early days,
>> but she couldn't see the need. At about our second Christmas, I
>> suggested that we do a bit of marriage strengthening, only
>> vaguely conceived. She thought it unnecessary. Like many couples
>> we became team workers, bringing up the children as a team more
>> than a couple. Before that, we were often a team in the youth
>> club where we met. That teamwork IMO, is the strength of our
>> relation****p. But we still tend to keep away from intimacy. My
>> depression seems to add the barrier of anhedonia - the inability
>> to enjoy things.
>>
>> I am not looking for a better fit. I am more monogamous by
>> constitution than many. I keep coming back to the Hippie idea
>> of one partner for each of several qualities. It can't work,
>> because really, that isn't what it is all about. A person as a
>> whole is more im****tant than the sum of the parts. I know about
>> "distant fields are always greener." Somebody else will always
>> have the missing piece of the jigsaw, but only the missing
>> piece. As you say, the ideal partner doesn't exist, and near
>> enough can be made to work with a bit of application. In the
>> days of arranged marriages, the couple usually made it work, and
>> some of those marriages were extremely happy (if the arranging
>> was done with their interests in mind, not the parents'
>> empire-building.)
>>
>> I think that I tend to verbalise what others simply accept.
>
> Thanks for the insight. I feel badly for you that your wife seems
> to refuse to engage in a dialog with you about all of this. It may
> be that she believes that it's irrelevant, or, as I suspect, the
> claim of irrelevance is a red-herring. I suggest to you that she
> suspects that the dialog will take her to places which are well
> outside of her comfort zone, and that this intense discomfort is
> what is causing her kill the dialog before it ever begins.
>
> Somehow, some way, you've got to figure out a way to attract her to
> that dialog, or at least reduce her discomfort for having it. It
> will take someone a whole lot smarter than me in the matters of the
> mind to offer any advice of any value to you o how to do that, but
> it seems to me that you're much better equipped than most, including
> me, to make the attempt.
>
> Good Luck to you.
>
It isn't so much that, as am I wanting something unrealistic? I can't
think
too clearly at the moment, but what I am trying to say is that a really
close marriage isn't our style. We are both over 60. I have been a
matrimonial lawyer, and we have "no-fault" divorce, based on one year's
separation. When relation****ps vary from couples that are never seen
apart
to "open marriages", it is often difficult to decide when an open-style
marriage has broken down. I myself have a tendency to withdraw.
The depression complicates it in two ways: the depression itself means I
can't enjoy the relation****p, and my medication affects my ***ual
functioning, but not the longing for ***. My wife has the usual lack of
interest as her hormone levels go down. (That is one thing that I read
about HRT: when it is prescribed for other reasons, interest in *** goes
up, and the husband may be unable to meet the increased demand.) But HRT
has its dangers, and we have never considered it. She now has health
issues
as well. Her upbringing that *** is to be avoided outside marriage seems
to have become an emotional barrier again within marriage, or it may be
simply an excuse. But it is more the closeness that I miss, and that may
be largely on my side.
In the long run, I think that its a question of being thankful for what I
have. I try to look on the depression as a disability rather than an
illness. The disabled demonstrate that they aren't write-offs. They find
ways around their disability.
Doug L.
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