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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:18:03 -0600
Newsgroups: ott.general
Subject: Re: Lori McConkey in the news ... again
From: Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1170075539.775069.189850@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Organization: Internalysis
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"herblovesjenniferbutnots...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"
<herblovesjenniferbutnots...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> altered the spacetime fabric
by
disgorging news:1170956004.817334.88510@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Jan 31, 8:23 pm, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
>> snoogens.mur...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
altered the spacetime fabric by
>> disgorgingnews:1170292322.839348.173470@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 31, 6:15 pm, "OttawaSuperMom" <ottawasuper...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> > wrote:
>> >> On Jan 31, 2:34 pm,MarcBissonnette <dragnet\_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> > "OttawaSuperMom" <ottawasuper...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> altered the
>> >> > spacetime fabric by disgorging news:1170250660.303674.325530
>> >> > @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> >> > [snip]
>>
>> >> > > I have a child with severe disabilities and it made me very
>> >> > > sad and angry to see a child not all that different from mine
>> >> > > getting her breasts cut off and being denied the op****tunity
>> >> > > to grow into a teenager and it made me feel good to see Wellar
>> >> > > and also the Citizen editorial that spoke out against it, it
>> >> > > made me feel a bit more optimistic, what is wrong with that?
>>
>> >> > [snip]
>>
>> >> > For heaven's sake.
>>
>> >> > If you're going to argue, at least do it with facts. "Ashley"
>> >> > did NOT "have her breasts cut off": You are being entirely
>> >> > dishonest and sensationalistic in order to try to sway people to
>> >> > your side of the argument and demonize those who disagree with
>> >> > you.
>>
>> >> > "Ashley" had her 'breast buds' removed so that her breasts would
>> >> > not continue to grow. That is a *MASSIVE* difference from a dual
>> >> > mastectomy.
>>
>> >> Sanitize it however you like her so-called "breast buds" are gone
>> >> and her breasts are not going to grow.
>>
>> > So, are you claiming that there is never a medical justification
>> > for removing breast buds?
>>
>> Of course there isn't... in her mind. Notice that "removal of breast
>> buds" doesn't evoke the emotional response as "cutting off her
>> breasts" - Pretty cheap tactic.
>>
>> I can tell you from my own experience: Liam is always going to be
>> utterly, absolutely dependant on other human beings: His mind will
>> _always_ be that of an infant, given his genetic deletion is so
>> large. Not only is he getting bigger and heavier, he's getting
>> _stronger_ a _lot_ stronger. There will come a time where he will
>> simply be too big and too strong for us to provide him with the care
>> he needs (Imagine changing a diaper on a 210 pound adult male who
>> does *not* wish to be changed: It ain't gonna happen without
>> restraints and the strength to put him in them).
>>
>> Ashleywill be able to stay with her parents a _lot_ longer than Liam
>> will be able to stay with us: BothAshleyand her parents have a huge
>> blessing right there.
>>
>> "Super Mom" is typical of so many "poor me" parents: Those who think
>> they have it tough and the whole world owes them a big pity-party.
>> There are a great many Angelman parents who have done things with
>> their kids for their betterment that I may not agree with, but you
>> will _not_ find me sitting in judgement of them
>>
>> Because. I. am. not. there.
>>
>> "Supermom" should hang up her false cape: She's got a _long_ way to
>> go before she earns it.
>>
>> --MarcBissonnette
>> Looking for a new ISP?http://www.canadianisp.com
>> Largest ISP comparison site across Canada.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Dude, you seem to be saying that what they did to her is justified
> because it makes her easier to care for. Are you really OK with
> approving of medical procedures to redesign the handicapped so they
> are easier to manage? I've totally come around on this, it's scary
> what they did to that little girl. She wasn't in danger, those
> operations were not to save her from a health problem. It's pretty
> sick and I'm kinda surprised to see you defending it or even saying
> that it's wrong to speak out about it. It was an article in today's
> globe and mail that really helped me see this. It's a lot more
> academic than what Keenan wrote but the ideas are similar, you should
> give it a read, well argued imo. February 7 page A15 by Margaret
> Somerville. This is too serious an issue to screw around with just
> because you don't want to agree with Keenan, some people respect your
> views on this and what you said was totally screwed up, you don't want
> people thinking it's OK to perform surgeries on the disabled for the
> convenience of others right?
My opinion on it has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on
Wellar.
At the rist of sounding like I'm sitting on a high horse: You *really*
have
to walk a mile in my shoes before you can truly form an educated
opinion on
something like this.
It is never *just* about the caregiver's needs. It is also about the
patient's needs. I can give you a really good example that occurred
today
with my son: A couple of weeks ago, we got a note from the OT, saying
that
the EA's wanted additional restraints for Liam in order to change his
diapers at school: Keep in mind, there are *THREE* trained adults with
him
during these diaper changes. As it is, he already has a *wide* chest
strap
holding him to the table and two adults holding him while the third
changed
him: We said no, that was unnecessary, to truss him up like a mummy,
we'd
come in and show them how to change him standing up, which we do at
home.
My wife did this, showed them that not only was this easier, but more
pleasant for Liam and because his hands were occupied by holding
himself
up, he would interfere less with the diaper changes.
This morning, we're informed that they're going ahead and ordering
the
restraints anyways, because "bending down to change him violates our
back
injury prevention routines" - Which is complete and utter hogwash:
They
have to bend down to *lift him off the floor* to get him in his
wheelchair:
Bending down to put a diaper on is a *lot* less work.
Now: Eventually, my wife and I are going to be too old and too weak
to
continue caring for Liam: It is people like this, who view the
handicapped
as mere objects to be handled during their jobs, who can be trussed
up,
strapped down, locked away or ignored for hours on end because their
union
contracts say they can that many, many parents of the handicapped have
to
look forward to with regards to the long term care (i.e. the rest of
their
lives) of their children.
Ashley's condition is even more severe than that of Liam; A *huge*
issue is
bedsores: I would challenge to you seek out patients who have been in
long-
term care where the primary caregivers are *not* family and where the
patient is non-verbal and non-mobile. In many of these places, workers
are
paid minimum wage or very close to it: Constantly moving a 200lb adult
to
avoid bedsores or change diapers every time it's soiled is
"inconvenient"
or "hurts our backs" - But the patients are non-verbal - they can't
complain, so they sit in their urine and feces, as well as the
bedsores
until or if someone decides they have to change them because the stink
is
coming into the hall.
You may think what Ashley's parents did was severe, but *you cannot
relate
to it*: Your children, thankfully, are healthy, self-sufficient,
fully
cognisent of their surroundings and will be able to self-determine
their
lives when they are older. We are talking about children, like Ashley,
like
my son, who can't even tell you that they're hungry *or* that they've
just
broken their leg: They. Can't. Talk.
Call your local CCAC office and ask them where the severely
handicapped are
sent when the family doesn't have enough money to pay for private
care; See
if you can get a tour in there or better yet, just wander around
without an
appointment so you don't get a 'sanitized' view. After, and *only*
after
you've done this: Ask yourself: Would you put your mom in there? How
about
your son or daughter? Your wife? What about yourself ? What if *you*
were
the one who suffered a massive stroke and lost most of your gross and
fine
motor skills *and* you had no insurance or family money to take care
of you
for the rest of your life.
Take a look at yourself, for example: You're an adult male, around the
200
lb mark or so: Can your wife lift you now ? Could she lift you on and
off
the toilet three times a day, every day, for the rest of her and your
life
? What about into bed ? Into the bath? Into the car so you can get to
the
doctor's office, or even just to go for a drive to see something other
than
your four walls ? If you think she can do this *now* and *every
single
day*, could she *still* do it twenty years from now ? What then,
Herb,
after all your savings have been eaten up in buying you the equipment
you
need just to have a *marginally* comfortable life at home ? Where are
you
going to go when she's too old to lift you out of bed and into your
wheelchair ? When she just doesn't have the money left over to replace
your
wheelchair seat for the thirtieth time because of the diaper leaks ?
Do *you* want to be taken care of by a kid making $10 an hour just so
he
can have some beer money at the end of the month and who just can't
*wait*
for a better job to come up ?
That's the problem of the non-handicapped families out there who pooh-
pooh
some of the things they see in the handicapped world: They can only
put
themselves, mentally, in the position for a day at a time, at best: I
have
to live with the awareness that my son, my flesh and blood *will have
to
leave me* some day, because I *will not be physically able to take
care of
him*. All bets are off once he's in a government home and believe you
me, I
am doing what I can to make sure that doesn't happen: Remember, too: I
have
two other children: Two other kids who probably won't get a whole lot
of
money from mom and dad to pay for their post-secondary education
because so
much of it needs to be put away towards ensuring Liam will have a
decent
life when he moves out of here.
Seriously, Herb: Think about it: You have to worry about being
fiscally and
physically responsible for your children for perhaps their first
twenty to
twenty-five years. Liam will live to be sixty or seventy years old,
assuming that, God willing, he doesn't die from massive seizures or
the
myriad of other, horrible ways that Angelman children have died in
the
past. For every second, every minute, every hour and every day of
those
next fifty two to sixty two years, I am responsible for my son's well
being: From the poop in his diaper when he wakes up to the last spoon
full
of food at night to being awake at four in the morning to keep him in
a
rescue position while he is seizing or vomiting to make sure he
doesn't
choke to death. Every. Single. Second.
Would I have done to Liam what Ashley's parents did to her ? I don't
know.
I had ***NO*** clue just how huge a life change Liam would be when we
knew
of his condition. None whatsoever. Even when a severely handicapped
child
is an infant, most parents don't fully realize until many, many years
have
passed that this level of care just doesn't end: I'm never going to
stand
at the end of the driveway and watch Liam go off to college and the
rest of
his life: I'm never going to get a phone call from him asking how to
fix a
burst pipe: I'm never going to watch my son walk down the aisle with
a
bride waiting for him: I'm never going to be able to put him behind
the
wheel of the truck and teach him how to drive for the first time;
He's
going to be here, beside me, because he *can't* do any of those
things.
There is going to be a time where I will have no choice but to give
Liam's
care over to that of strangers, not because I'm tired of him or
because I
find him inconvenient, but because I will not be physically capable
of
providing for his basic needs of life. Ashley's parents have ensured
that
that decision has been postponed for a *lot* longer than mine will.
Do you remember when your kids were infants ? Now: Think about this:
What
if they were *still* infants, all this time? Eight years of changing
diapers, getting up in the middle of the night, lifting in and out of
wheelchairs, beds, walkers, in the van, out of the van. Eight years
solid;
And another sixty to go.
Path: g2news2.google.com!news3.google.com!
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local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:44:45 -0600
Newsgroups: ott.general
Subject: Re: Lori McConkey in the news ... again
From: Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1170098301.515303.147390@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1170100209.960626.48190@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <rAsvh.
78897$jd2.31559@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1170175796.919758.87260@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <V7Mvh.
58758$Oc2.57864@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1170201410.452662.244200@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <5PRvh.
63093$5l2.40078@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1170212953.613119.52150@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <JQUvh.
89779$jd2.32247@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1170250660.303674.325530@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<Xns98C9943B9EE58dragnetinternalysisc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1170285342.032420.194270@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1170292322.839348.173470@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<Xns98C9CF69E3379dragnetinternalysisc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1170956004.817334.88510@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<Xns98D1873E15A08dragnetinternalysisc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1170961512.505080.190230@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Organization: Internalysis
Message-ID: <Xns98D195F051BB8dragnetinternalysisc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.24
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:44:45 -0600
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"herblovesjenniferbutnots...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"
<herblovesjenniferbutnots...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> altered the spacetime fabric
by
disgorging news:
1170961512.505080.190230@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Feb 8, 1:18 pm, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
>> "herblovesjenniferbutnots...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"
>> <herblovesjenniferbutnots...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> altered the spacetime fabric
>> by
>> disgorgingnews:1170956004.817334.88510@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> > On Jan 31, 8:23 pm, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> > wrote:
>> >> snoogens.mur...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
altered the spacetime fabric by
>> >> disgorgingnews:1170292322.839348.173470@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> m:
>>
>> >> > On Jan 31, 6:15 pm, "OttawaSuperMom"
>> >> > <ottawasuper...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> >> On Jan 31, 2:34 pm,MarcBissonnette
>> >> >> <dragnet\_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > "OttawaSuperMom" <ottawasuper...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> altered the
>> >> >> > spacetime fabric by disgorging news:1170250660.303674.325530
>> >> >> > @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> >> >> > [snip]
>>
>> >> >> > > I have a child with severe disabilities and it made me very
>> >> >> > > sad and angry to see a child not all that different from
>> >> >> > > mine getting her breasts cut off and being denied the
>> >> >> > > op****tunity to grow into a teenager and it made me feel
>> >> >> > > good to see Wellar and also the Citizen editorial that
>> >> >> > > spoke out against it, it made me feel a bit more
>> >> >> > > optimistic, what is wrong with that?
>>
>> >> >> > [snip]
>>
>> >> >> > For heaven's sake.
>>
>> >> >> > If you're going to argue, at least do it with facts. "Ashley"
>> >> >> > did NOT "have her breasts cut off": You are being entirely
>> >> >> > dishonest and sensationalistic in order to try to sway people
>> >> >> > to your side of the argument and demonize those who disagree
>> >> >> > with you.
>>
>> >> >> > "Ashley" had her 'breast buds' removed so that her breasts
>> >> >> > would not continue to grow. That is a *MASSIVE* difference
>> >> >> > from a dual mastectomy.
>>
>> >> >> Sanitize it however you like her so-called "breast buds" are
>> >> >> gone and her breasts are not going to grow.
>>
>> >> > So, are you claiming that there is never a medical justification
>> >> > for removing breast buds?
>>
>> >> Of course there isn't... in her mind. Notice that "removal of
>> >> breast buds" doesn't evoke the emotional response as "cutting off
>> >> her breasts" - Pretty cheap tactic.
>>
>> >> I can tell you from my own experience: Liam is always going to be
>> >> utterly, absolutely dependant on other human beings: His mind will
>> >> _always_ be that of an infant, given his genetic deletion is so
>> >> large. Not only is he getting bigger and heavier, he's getting
>> >> _stronger_ a _lot_ stronger. There will come a time where he will
>> >> simply be too big and too strong for us to provide him with the
>> >> care he needs (Imagine changing a diaper on a 210 pound adult male
>> >> who does *not* wish to be changed: It ain't gonna happen without
>> >> restraints and the strength to put him in them).
>>
>> >> Ashleywill be able to stay with her parents a _lot_ longer than
>> >> Liam will be able to stay with us: BothAshleyand her parents have
>> >> a huge blessing right there.
>>
>> >> "Super Mom" is typical of so many "poor me" parents: Those who
>> >> think they have it tough and the whole world owes them a big
>> >> pity-party. There are a great many Angelman parents who have done
>> >> things with their kids for their betterment that I may not agree
>> >> with, but you will _not_ find me sitting in judgement of them
>>
>> >> Because. I. am. not. there.
>>
>> >> "Supermom" should hang up her false cape: She's got a _long_ way
>> >> to go before she earns it.
>>
>> >> --MarcBissonnette
>> >> Looking for a new ISP?http://www.canadianisp.com
>> >> Largest ISP comparison site across Canada.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > Dude, you seem to be saying that what they did to her is justified
>> > because it makes her easier to care for. Are you really OK with
>> > approving of medical procedures to redesign the handicapped so they
>> > are easier to manage? I've totally come around on this, it's scary
>> > what they did to that little girl. She wasn't in danger, those
>> > operations were not to save her from a health problem. It's pretty
>> > sick and I'm kinda surprised to see you defending it or even saying
>> > that it's wrong to speak out about it. It was an article in today's
>> > globe and mail that really helped me see this. It's a lot more
>> > academic than what Keenan wrote but the ideas are similar, you
>> > should give it a read, well argued imo. February 7 page A15 by
>> > Margaret Somerville. This is too serious an issue to screw around
>> > with just because you don't want to agree with Keenan, some people
>> > respect your views on this and what you said was totally screwed
>> > up, you don't want people thinking it's OK to perform surgeries on
>> > the disabled for the convenience of others right?
>>
>> My opinion on it has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on
>> Wellar.
>>
>> At the rist of sounding like I'm sitting on a high horse: You
>> *really* have to walk a mile in my shoes before you can truly form an
>> educated opinion on something like this.
>
> You do sound like you are on a very high horse. Your personal life
> definitely helps form your opinion but from what I have seen lots of
> parents disagree on this so the idea that your opinion rules because
> you are the dad of a disabled kid is bull****.
>
>> It is never *just* about the caregiver's needs. It is also about the
>> patient's needs.
>
> But the case is the case. The things they did to Ashley were not
> medically necessary.
Can you prove this ? Bedsores are not medical issues ? How about the
blood infections that result from them ? How about the increased
exposure
to fecal bacteria which is further ingrained into the skin due to
increased weight ?
>
>>I can give you a really good example that occurred today
>> with my son: A couple of weeks ago, we got a note from the OT, saying
>> that the EA's wanted additional restraints for Liam in order to
>> change his diapers at school: Keep in mind, there are *THREE* trained
>> adults with him during these diaper changes. As it is, he already has
>> a *wide* chest strap holding him to the table and two adults holding
>> him while the third changed him: We said no, that was unnecessary, to
>> truss him up like a mummy, we'd come in and show them how to change
>> him standing up, which we do at home. My wife did this, showed them
>> that not only was this easier, but more pleasant for Liam and because
>> his hands were occupied by holding himself up, he would interfere
>> less with the diaper changes.
>>
>> This morning, we're informed that they're going ahead and ordering
>> the restraints anyways, because "bending down to change him violates
>> our back injury prevention routines" - Which is complete and utter
>> hogwash: They have to bend down to *lift him off the floor* to get
>> him in his wheelchair: Bending down to put a diaper on is a *lot*
>> less work.
>>
>> Now: Eventually, my wife and I are going to be too old and too weak
>> to continue caring for Liam: It is people like this, who view the
>> handicapped as mere objects to be handled during their jobs, who can
>> be trussed up, strapped down, locked away or ignored for hours on end
>> because their union contracts say they can that many, many parents of
>> the handicapped have to look forward to with regards to the long term
>> care (i.e. the rest of their lives) of their children.
>>
>> Ashley's condition is even more severe than that of Liam; A *huge*
>> issue is bedsores: I would challenge to you seek out patients who
>> have been in long- term care where the primary caregivers are *not*
>> family and where the patient is non-verbal and non-mobile. In many of
>> these places, workers are paid minimum wage or very close to it:
>> Constantly moving a 200lb adult to avoid bedsores or change diapers
>> every time it's soiled is "inconvenient" or "hurts our backs" - But
>> the patients are non-verbal - they can't complain, so they sit in
>> their urine and feces, as well as the bedsores until or if someone
>> decides they have to change them because the stink is coming into the
>> hall.
>
> I understand all of that I'm not an idiot.
No, you really don't understand it.
>
>> You may think what Ashley's parents did was severe, but *you cannot
>> relate to it*:
>
> Bull****.
I'm calling your bluff: What medical issues are you taking care of,
twenty four hours a day for the next sixty years ? Apples to apples,
sonny-boy, and it doesn't count if you have a nine-to-five job where
you
get to go home to your normal life and live your white-picket-fence
lifestyle.
>>Your children, thankfully, are healthy, self-sufficient, fully
>> cognisent of their surroundings and will be able to self-determine
>> their lives when they are older. We are talking about children, like
>> Ashley, like my son, who can't even tell you that they're hungry *or*
>> that they've just broken their leg: They. Can't. Talk.
>
> Yes, I know all of this.
>
>> Call your local CCAC office and ask them where the severely
>> handicapped are sent when the family doesn't have enough money to pay
>> for private care; See if you can get a tour in there or better yet,
>> just wander around without an appointment so you don't get a
>> 'sanitized' view. After, and *only* after you've done this: Ask
>> yourself: Would you put your mom in there? How about your son or
>> daughter? Your wife? What about yourself ? What if *you* were the one
>> who suffered a massive stroke and lost most of your gross and fine
>> motor skills *and* you had no insurance or family money to take care
>> of you for the rest of your life.
>>
>> Take a look at yourself, for example: You're an adult male, around
>> the 200 lb mark or so: Can your wife lift you now ? Could she lift
>> you on and off the toilet three times a day, every day, for the rest
>> of her and your life ? What about into bed ? Into the bath? Into the
>> car so you can get to the doctor's office, or even just to go for a
>> drive to see something other than your four walls ? If you think she
>> can do this *now* and *every single day*, could she *still* do it
>> twenty years from now ? What then, Herb, after all your savings have
>> been eaten up in buying you the equipment you need just to have a
>> *marginally* comfortable life at home ? Where are you going to go
>> when she's too old to lift you out of bed and into your wheelchair ?
>> When she just doesn't have the money left over to replace your
>> wheelchair seat for the thirtieth time because of the diaper leaks ?
>
> None of this is a justification for what was done. It's a
> rationalization for something that should not have been done.
>
>> Do *you* want to be taken care of by a kid making $10 an hour just so
>> he can have some beer money at the end of the month and who just
>> can't *wait* for a better job to come up ?
>
> So we solve the inadequacies of our social system by physically re-
> engineering handicapped people? No thanks. I see where Keenan got his
> Hitler reference from.
Complete and utter dodge: You don't answer a question with another
question.
>
>> That's the problem of the non-handicapped families out there who
>> pooh-pooh some of the things they see in the handicapped world:
>
> Sorry it's not only me who is pooh-poohing the "handicapped world"
> there are plenty of people who are going through the same things that
> you and Ashley's parents are going through who are speaking out
> against what was done. This is very dishonest arguing on your part.
And there are a very, very large number of people in my situation
speaking out in sup****t of Ashley's parents.
>
>> They can only put
>> themselves, mentally, in the position for a day at a time, at best: I
>> have to live with the awareness that my son, my flesh and blood *will
>> have to leave me* some day, because I *will not be physically able to
>> take care of him*.
>
> So why don't you have him physically re-engineered?!?
Because it's not *my* choice. I am thirty-five years old and in
decent
condition; I am, as I have stated before, that you conveniently try
to
re-word below, attempting to plan financially so that he won't be in
the
care of the minimum wage government houses.
>> All bets are off once he's in a government home and believe you me, I
>> am doing what I can to make sure that doesn't happen: Remember, too:
>> I have two other children: Two other kids who probably won't get a
>> whole lot of money from mom and dad to pay for their post-secondary
>> education because so much of it needs to be put away towards ensuring
>> Liam will have a decent life when he moves out of here.
>
> So are you saving to have him operated on to make him easier to move
> around?
English does not appear to be your first language: Quote where I said
or
alluded to that.
>
>> Seriously, Herb: Think about it: You have to worry about being
>> fiscally and physically responsible for your children for perhaps
>> their first twenty to twenty-five years. Liam will live to be sixty
>> or seventy years old, assuming that, God willing, he doesn't die from
>> massive seizures or the myriad of other, horrible ways that Angelman
>> children have died in the past. For every second, every minute, every
>> hour and every day of those next fifty two to sixty two years, I am
>> responsible for my son's well being: From the poop in his diaper when
>> he wakes up to the last spoon full of food at night to being awake at
>> four in the morning to keep him in a rescue position while he is
>> seizing or vomiting to make sure he doesn't choke to death. Every.
>> Single. Second.
>
> Yes, I know.
No, you really don't.
>
>> Would I have done to Liam what Ashley's parents did to her ? I don't
>> know.
>
> Well that's the problem. That's the question. No one is questioning
> the struggles for you or Ashley's parents. We are talking about
> freaking ASHLEY here. This is not only about the parents there was a
> person that had their freaking "breast buds" cut off and given drugs
> to stay a permanment child. For no MEDICAL REASON. Bull**** to that.
Bed sores. Fecal coliform infection. To name just two.
>> I had ***NO*** clue just how huge a life change Liam would be when we
>> knew of his condition. None whatsoever. Even when a severely
>> handicapped child is an infant, most parents don't fully realize
>> until many, many years have passed that this level of care just
>> doesn't end: I'm never going to stand at the end of the driveway and
>> watch Liam go off to college and the rest of his life: I'm never
>> going to get a phone call from him asking how to fix a burst pipe:
>> I'm never going to watch my son walk down the aisle with a bride
>> waiting for him: I'm never going to be able to put him behind the
>> wheel of the truck and teach him how to drive for the first time;
>> He's going to be here, beside me, because he *can't* do any of those
>> things.
>
> But you've celebrated many stages of his growth right? And never
> wanted to stop him from growing for your convenience.
Says you. You don't have the foggiest clue what it is to live the
lives
of Ashley's parents; You're the typical armchair quarterback who's
opinion is valueless.
>
>> There is going to be a time where I will have no choice but to give
>> Liam's care over to that of strangers, not because I'm tired of him
>> or because I find him inconvenient, but because I will not be
>> physically capable of providing for his basic needs of life. Ashley's
>> parents have ensured that that decision has been postponed for a
>> *lot* longer than mine will.
>
> So are you going to re-engineer him?
>
>> Do you remember when your kids were infants ? Now: Think about this:
>> What if they were *still* infants, all this time? Eight years of
>> changing diapers, getting up in the middle of the night, lifting in
>> and out of wheelchairs, beds, walkers, in the van, out of the van.
>> Eight years solid; And another sixty to go.
>>
>> Think about it.
>
> I have thought about, it doesn't excuse in the least the barbaric
> treatment of this little girl. The parents can heap all the sympathy
> in the world and it doesn't excuse it anymore than it excuses Robert
> Latimer. These people might have believed they were doing good but no
> one spoke up for Ashley and her body.
Actually, her parents did. You are incapable of understanding this.
YOU
want to force YOUR preconceptions on HER parents because it makes YOU
feel better. YOU, however, get to go to your normal little home with
your
normal little wife and your normal little kids, thinking you've saved
the
world because you've imposed your views on a situation that has no
consequences on you personally. You're the worst kind of hypocrite.
> Would you do this to Liam or not? If you want to make it so personal,
> that's the question.
You'll have to check in over the next sixty years to find out, now,
won't
you ?
--
Marc Bissonnette
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