Photographing thugs 'is assault', police tell householder snapping
proof of anti-social behaviour
By Neil Sears
Last updated at 9:44 AM on 21st July 2008
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A householder who took photographs of hooded teenagers as evidence of
their anti-social behaviour says he was told he was breaking the law
after they called the police.
David Green, 64, and his neighbours had been plagued by the youths
from a nearby comprehensive school for months, and was advised by
their headmaster to identify them so action could be taken.
One of Mr Green's pictures shows two hooded teenagers, one making an
obscene gesture towards the camera
But when Mr Green left his =A31million London flat to take photographs
of the gang, who were aged around 17, he said one threatened to kill
him while another called the police on his mobile.
And he claimed that a Police Community Sup****t Officer sent to the
scene promptly issued a warning that taking pictures of youths without
permission was illegal, and could lead to a charge of assault.
Concern: David Green
Last night Mr Green, a television cameraman, said he was appalled that
the legal system's first priority seemed not to be stopping
frightening anti-social behaviour by aggressive youths, but protecting
them from being photographed by the concerned public.
Mr Green, a father-of-two, lives with his programme-maker wife Judy in
a penthouse flat close to Waterloo station.
He said: 'We've had problems with this group shouting abuse and
throwing stones for months, and were asked to identify them.
'When I went to take photographs of eight of them throwing cans of
Coke around, six of them ran away, one threatened to kill me, and
another one started phoning the police.
'A couple of hours later, a Police Community Sup****t Officer told me I
had been accused of assault, though no such thing occurred, and told
me I was not allowed to take photographs of teenagers on the street.
'I think it's wrong that when teenagers are running riot and the
police are called, it's about me, and I'm treated like a criminal.
'In South London we all know how many stabbings there have been, and I
think the police should be busy catching the real bad people.'
Mr Green said he handed his pictures to a deputy headmaster at the
nearby Nautical School, and was promised the matter would be
investigated.
A Metropolitan Police spokesman said the force had no record of the
incident.
Last week, the Daily Mail re****ted that a father was told by a play
equipment supervisor he was not allowed to take pictures of his own
children on a slide.
There is no other conclusion. The police are sup****ting young
criminals in a successful attempt to destroy our freedoms and property
rights going back to Magna Carta. This is being orchestrated by
powerful dark forces that control the government of the UK and Europe.
Do we really want to see a National Socialist Police State?
Regrettably some do.
- Peter, North Lincoln****re, England, 20/7/2008 15:10
Perhaps it's time that personnel working within the police service
were taught some basic law? If this guy was threatened by one of the
yobs, why wasn't the youth tracked down and charged with threatening
behaviour? Furthermore, why weren't the plods who threatened this guy
charged with wasting police time? There are probably thousands of good
coppers who tear their hair out at this sort of thing, because its
such negative publicity. I was appalled to learn the other day that
the Met no longer has its Police Cadet College at Hendon. Surely this
was one way in which future police could be properly trained? Where's
the 21st Century's Robert Peel when you need one?
- Tony K, Oxford, UK, 20/7/2008 16:05
Police warning that taking pictures of youths without permission was
illegal, so let's take all the cameras of the streets then.
- Terry Groves, Horley, Surrey, 20/7/2008 16:19
The Police Community Officer should have been told to go back to
school. He is obviously totally ignorant of the laws about photography
in public places. A VERY strong complaint should be made to his/her
supervisors.
- Norman, Athens, Greece, 20/7/2008 16:29
Taking photographs in a public place is perfectly legal.
- B Veale, Widnes Che****re, 20/7/2008 16:53
Typical of are stupid police nowadays, when someone is doing wrong
against you, you are entitled to take photos of their actions, so you
can take action against them in court. I, myself, was attacked by a
police officer for no reason, but managed to get photos of him, so he
could be dealt with, and he was dealt with, because I had evidence.
- D Walmsley, Leeds, 20/7/2008 17:10
You know, I'm too weary to even get on my high horse about this sort
of thing any more.
- Mo, Renfrew****re, 20/7/2008 17:17
Does the same law of assault apply to CCTV images?
- Graham, West Palm Beach USA, 20/7/2008 17:21
Apparently re****ted crime is on the way down. Stories such as this
explain why. Those supposedly in charge really need to get this
stupidity sorted out.
- Trevor, Birmingham, England, 20/7/2008 17:38
Is there no limit to the idiocy of the police and their political
correctness? Every day that p***** brings yet another instance more
ludicrous than the previous one. It makes one want to vomit.
- Roy Thomson, Sheffield, UK, 20/7/2008 17:57
Does this mean speed cameras and CCTV footage can be classed as
assault?
- Expomelb, Melbourne, 20/7/2008 18:02
Well, it's much safer for the useless police to do this than actually
do something about hoodie thugs!
- Andrew, St. Ives, Cambridge****re, 20/7/2008 18:11
Oh stop it. This is nitpicking at best.
- Edwina Rigby, Blackburn, 20/7/2008 18:13
The formerly great Britain has truly become Wacky World.
- Dennis, ****tland OR (US), 20/7/2008 18:22
So every time I am photographed by CCTV or a speed camera I am being
assaulted? Hypocrisy!!
- Stephen, Quang Ngai, Vietnam, 20/7/2008 18:35
Well done that LABOUR government, the law abiding in this country will
be loving you. One wonders if there is anything one can do without
having to feel the weight of the law.
What is badly needed here is an ultra right wing administration to
reverse this Political Correct slide into decay, which has been
im****ted by the ultra left wing faction in Brussels.
- Marshfield, Salisbury UK, 20/7/2008 19:16
Clearly another Police Comunity Sup****t Officer who is not "fit for
purpose". Message to the Metropolitan Police management - sack him.
- Stephen Allan, Nottingham. UK, 20/7/2008 19:23
The police not responding or responding late is one thing, but when
they take the side of the offender you know that all is lost. I feel
like I've entered the Twilight Zone.
- R M, London, UK, 20/7/2008 19:26
It is not assault! The taking of pictures of random people in a city
or rural ****trait does not contravene any law. Otherwise any
photographs taken by anyone without the express permission of every
person who could be in the photograph would be illegal. It is about
time the police got rid of the Community Sup****t wallies and started
arresting the grubs that cause the problems.
- Richard Jones, Brisbane, Australia, 20/7/2008 19:35
I see the standard of legal training given to PCSOs is not much higher
than that given to regular Police Officers.
- James Lawson, Leyland, Lanca****re, 20/7/2008 19:39
At least here in the US, if you are outside you have no reasonable
expectation of privacy and taking pictures of anyone in public is
legal as long as you don't intend to make any money off of their
images. It's a shame that the laws of many countries protect thugs and
other criminal types.
- Dakk, USA, 20/7/2008 19:41
Whenever I think that Canada is the most screwed up and soft on crime
country in the world, all I need to do is look at the UK news to
discover it could be much, much worse.
- UKSucks, Vacovuer Canada, 20/7/2008 19:53
What is Britain coming to? We should all take a lesson from Texas
(Wisconsin included) - if someone is threatening you on or in your
property, get your gun! Don't even bother with the camera. It's bad
enough that every group that whines a little is appeased and coddled,
now police are appeasing thugs.
- Diane, Milwaukee, WI USA, 20/7/2008 19:58
Very often in this surreal Britain one is just lost for words.
- Peter, Kings Lynn, 20/7/2008 20:11
All part of NL vaunted crackdown on crime. Desperadoes with cameras.
Idiots in police uniform.
- Alan Preen, McLean, Texas, USA., 20/7/2008 20:12
It will soon be a crime to re****t a crime!
- Steve Gray, Chonburi Thailand, 20/7/2008 20:28
Typical lunatic political correctness in both cases. The camera
incident Sup****t Officer should be formally re****ted to the police as
aiding and abetting conduct liable to cause a breach of the peace.
- John., Arabian Gulf, 20/7/2008 20:32
What the hell is wrong with this country?! We are quickly going to the
dogs; then, who will pay taxes and sup****t the yobs?
- John Lippre, London UK, 20/7/2008 20:42
It is high time that this political correctness/human rights fiasco
was stopped. I am losing count of how many stories like this are in
the papers. At one time the police relied on the public for there
sup****t and the public equally relied on them. Can anybody
realistically expect this to be the case when such stupidity seems to
be an every day occurrence. Just a few days ago we were advised that
it was ok to take reasonable action to protect our property as long as
it was not excessive. How can taking pictures of the s*** that make
our lives a misery be deemed to be assault? Can someone, anyone, in
authority get off their backsides and have the guts to restore some
sanity to this country before the public have no option but to tackle
the problems themselves in whatever way they think is appropriate.
- Derek, Hull, York****re, 20/7/2008 20:44
I'd suggest every photographer (or just people who have a camera)
search for 'photographer's rights' online, print out the PDF and keep
it on them in case they are confronted by police or PCSOs. It's a
shame 'the law' doesn't seem to know the law and it has to be left up
to innocent people to defend themselves.
- Jennifer, London, UK, 20/7/2008 20:45
Why has this country got 14 million surveillance cameras and why do we
use CCTV to catch criminals and then tell the victims not to try and
capture images of their assailants? This is total insanity.
- Brandon, London, 20/7/2008 20:45
The police force and those who dictate their increasingly warped sense
of priorities in this country have lost all moral credibility in the
eyes of many, including me. Furthermore, if photographing teen thugs
is an assault, so is the gathering of DNA for 'evidence'.
- David Winstanley, Rotherham, South York****re, 20/7/2008 20:51
This is what you get when you employ Police Community Sup****t Officers
instead of real Police officers. People want to see real police
officers on the street and not these uniform carriers.
- martin, Reading, 20/7/2008 20:55
So can we prosecute local authorities for photographing us without
consent? They have CCTV cameras all over Camden and most of the
country.
- Miles Halford, London England, 20/7/2008 21:01
This is what you get when the government employ Community Sup****t
Officers instead of real Police Officers. Stop wasting money on
plastic police and use the cash to hire the genuine article.
- martin, Reading, 20/7/2008 21:13
UK - Thugs paradise.
- GL, Cardiff, 20/7/2008 21:13
England - once the land of the free and the home of the brave. No land
of the freaks and home of the knaves. What in the world is the matter
with England's government? Everything we read about England in the
past few months reflects a society gone mad.
- Reis Kash, Springfield, Oregon, U.S.A., 20/7/2008 21:16
Sorry coppers, but you're not allowed to lie to people about the law
or threaten people with lies. That's a real crime that should be
investigated.
- Milliner, USA, 20/7/2008 21:17
The whole of the British justice system has gone to the dogs and the
criminal wins every time, I cannot wait to leave this country in the
next few months enough is enough. Knife murders and all rest that is
going on in this country gives you no confidence in this government.
- Michael Nantwich, Nantwich, 20/7/2008 21:18
How bloody stupid is that - the law really is a fool at times!
- Derek Kyberd, Adelaide Australia, 20/7/2008 21:43
I would have thought that an incident like this would have been
do***ented by the PCSO either in the control-room or in their pocket-
book. There being any repercussions a reference could be referred to
officially. I think being threatened with being killed is actually
'assault' as well. I rather think that outweighs having your
photograph taken as being classified as an 'assault'. That is taking
the law right back to a technicality and advocating thuggish
behaviour. It takes the law and its application to a new level. God
help us all!
- Jan, London, UK, 20/7/2008 21:44
If photographing law-breakers is assault, then surely speed cameras
are illegal by the same token?
- Dave Moore, Christchurch, New Zealand, 20/7/2008 21:57
Oh well, this is GB now, is it any wonder people are upsticks and
moving away to a civilised country leaving this for the government to
sort out their own mess.
- JohnR, Rye, E Sus***, 20/7/2008 22:17
Just your typical lazy PC Plod attitude. I'd have to be really
desperate before I spoke to the police about anything.
- Paul Downes, Milton Keynes, UK, 20/7/2008 22:20
Sounds about right for the Police force of today, as long as they do
not actually have to catch criminals.
- Terry Stride, Tamworth, Great Britain, 20/7/2008 22:26
Bring on the New English Revolution when politicians, police, the
judiciary, the politically correct and the teachers who fail to teach
traditional British values will all be brought to account.
Sorry, but democracy as we know it is not working. It's time for
indigenous Brits to stand up and get rid of the dreadful society which
left whingers have imposed upon us.
- Roger Andrew, Perth, Australia, 20/7/2008 22:29
So all the CCTV and security cameras around UK cities constitute
"assault" do they?
- Trevor Rymell, Singa****e, 20/7/2008 22:29
What a load of rubbish, again the police protect the troublemakers.
- Jacqui, Kent, 20/7/2008 22:34
When I was serving my time in the Metropolitan Police, taking a
photograph of a crime suspect could never be considered an assault. In
fact I can readily think of at least three cases when neighbours
taking photographs of criminals in action lead to arrest and
conviction of those involved.
How can it be permissible for criminal acts recorded by CCTV to be
given in evidence and photographs taken by witnesses to be illegal?
This shows the dangers of employing PCSOs. Their inadequate training
ill prepares them for the job they are called on to do. This
particular PCSO didn't even formally record this incident.
PCSO's is policing on the cheap introduced by a New Labour government
that is all gimmick and spin with no real idea how to solve the
problems endured by residents of the UK today.
- John Moore, Paphos, Cyprus, 20/7/2008 22:38
If that is the case that photographing someone is assault then can we
have all the CCTV cameras removed?
- Pat, France, 20/7/2008 22:38
This is insanity! Thugs have more rights than law abiding citizens?
Time to rise up, Britain. You deserve far better work from your
officials.
- Marie, California, U.S., 20/7/2008 22:41
The police are useless, and these plastic ones worse. They are
interested only in for example extorting money through speed cameras
and have not the remotest intention of putting themselves in positions
where they might have to confront yobs and criminals.
- Jan Thomas, Nottingham, England, 20/7/2008 22:53
Ludicrous.
- Tina, Dusseldorf, Germany, 20/7/2008 22:55
What a load of rubbish. If this is true then it's high time we got the
law changed.
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